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I recently finished reading Yes Means Yes: Visions of Female Sexual Power and A World Without Rape, edited by Jaclyn Friedman (our very own “Yes Means Yes” columnist here at Amplify) and Jessica Valenti (author of another Amplify favorite, The Purity Myth). The book is amazing. You’ve really got to read it. So many of the essays in the book stood out to me, but right now I’d like to focus on an idea talked about in an essay written by Julia Serano called “Why Nice Guys Finish Last.”
I found this quote to be very thought-provoking:
…I would argue that “nice guys” are generally read as emasculated or effeminized men in our culture. In a world where calling a man “sensitive” is viewed as a pejorative, the very act of showing respect for women often disqualifies a male from being seen as a “real man.” I believe that this is a major reason why many heterosexual women are not sexually interested in “nice guys.” -p. 238
Isn’t that interesting? And sad?
Heterosexual women always say they want to meet a nice guy who treats them with respect, but then somehow they end up dating some loser jackass who only cares about his own needs. We’ve seen this play out in movies and in real life. Our friends have done it. We’ve done it. Our single moms have done it. One may ask, “Why do guys act that way?” but it may in fact be better to ask, “Why do women allow men to act that way?”
If relationship after relationship finds you with a series of men who act like assholes, you need to ask yourself why you acquaint yourself with these men long enough to call what you have a relationship. You should ask yourself why that great guy that you’ve known forever but only see as a friend hasn’t made it on your “sexually attracted to” list. Why are the rude, moody, aggressive guys so appealing? Why are the nice, respectful, understanding guys so unappealing? Why is your idea of a “real man” not so nice of a guy?
Here’s another quote from “Why Nice Guys Finish Last”:
So long as heterosexual women are attracted to men who act like aggressors, and heterosexual men are attracted to women who act like objects, people will continue to fulfill those roles. -p. 237
If the men you chose to date as a heterosexual women (or gay man for that matter) are assholes, what do you think that nice guy who’s totally into you will think he has to do just to get you to notice him? If the only guys who seem to excite you are the ones who are emotionally unavailable and/or physically domineering, why would the sensitive, physically unthreatening guy even bother with you? What good is it to say that you want a “nice guy” when all you accept as attractive are “bad boys?”
One more quote:
Lots of women…want to create a world in which women are allowed and encouraged to be sexual without having to be nonconsensually sexualized. […] I would argue that for this to happen, we will also have to work to simultaneously ensure that men can be respectful of women without being desexualized. -p. 239
(Emphasis is the author’s.)
If what we really want is a “nice guy“, then we cannot allow ourselves to continue to date “bad boys.” Dating and/or having sex with “bad boys” sends a message to the “nice guys” that in order for us to be interested in them, they have to treat us badly. And why the heck would we want to send that message? If we keep lowering the bar on what kinds of behavior are acceptable in relationships, why would our partners have any incentive to raise it? We’re already in a relationship with them. If we let people use us; if we put ourselves in a position to be used, people will take advantage of that. But if we demand to be respectfully treated as equals, our partners will do so (and anyone who doesn’t won’t make it to a partner- status anyway).
Nice guys don’t finish last because they’re weaker. The only reason “nice guys finish last” is because we give the “bad boys” an unfair advantage. By accepting their behavior, we make it easy for them to abuse us. If certain behaviors become truly unacceptable in relationships, they will be discontinued because they no longer offer any advantage. If that guy you’ve been obsessing about hasn’t called you for a week- forget about him! Don’t allow him to be “mysterious.” Allow yourself to see that he’s not interested and find a guy who is! If what you want is a guy who’ll call you when he says he will (a “nice guy“), why would you accept someone who does the opposite (a “bad boy“)?
Let’s get smart about this. It’s about time that we realized that real men are nice guys.
~ Samantha
Thanks! :)
I need to pick up this book!
I apologize "nice guys"!!!
i agree with what you have here:
quote:
Nice guys don’t finish last because they’re weaker. The only reason “nice guys finish last” is because we give the “bad boys” an unfair advantage. By accepting their behavior, we make it easy for them to abuse us. If certain behaviors become truly unacceptable in relationships, they will be discontinued because they no longer offer any advantage. If that guy you’ve been obsessing about hasn’t called you for a week- forget about him! Don’t allow him to be “mysterious.” Allow yourself to see that he’s not interested and find a guy who is! If what you want is a guy who’ll call you when he says he will (a “nice guy“), why would you accept someone who does the opposite (a “bad boy“)?
this is from another thread and post from a synical nice guy and the present signal or message girls/women send nice guys by there actions . which by the way may give alittle more insite into the nice guy problem . (again this guy has some good points but as said very synical and alittle angry) also i've included some side thoughts found in ( ).
Posted Over a year ago Views 30605 Comments 93 Category Dating
Where Did All The Nice Guys Go?
I see this question posted with some regularity in the many personals sections on the internet and what not, so I thought I'd take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven't figured it out quite yet.
What happened to all the nice guys?
The answer is simple: you did.
See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were f***ing treated you.
At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were "just friends." Besides, he totally wasn't your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn't know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.
Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you weren't dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren't the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you're single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, "What happened to all the nice guys?"
Well, once again, you did.
You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy (tampon) without reciprocating, in kind,(how many ever tried to set up the guy pal with another girl , yah we know it isn't you but at least try to help him knowing if you were close to him that he had no love life at all) with physical intimacy (and that doesn't necessarily translate to having sex with him). You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he'd have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.(nice guy turn jerk and it has happened girls, to alot of really sweet nice guys. there's even, imagine this, guys that say they turned to being jerks just to get a girlfriend and it worked yet if they started showing their nice guy tendencies the girls would start loosing interest as soon as they started acting like jerks again the girls interest would return)
Fact is, now, he's probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I'm sorry that it took the complete absence of "nice guys" in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.
So, if you're looking for a nice guy, here's what you do:
1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.
3.) Take a look at what's right in front of you and grab a hold of it.
I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don't really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.
If you were five years younger.
So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you've f***ed yourself over. You're getting older, after all. It's time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn't want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn't want you, now.
(this isn't necessarily true there's been many nice guys that would take the girl, however at times the nice guy does feel at times that he was just settled for as a last option. and then wonders if i'm so right for her now why wasn't i right for her while we were teens or early twenty's. i'm the same guy now as i was then, (the boring ,asexual,doormat,wimpy,weak, and other such adjectives that girls/women asign to the nice guy)
in all truthfulness i hope that more women read what you have here and take the article i included (with a grain of salt ; yes it shows a somewhat angry nice guy point of view but does help explain why some(not all) nice guys may act the way they do.)
as i said he's alittle synical in his opinion also i didn't post this to make anyone angry but to show that what you wrote is very true.
I think this this point of view contains some double standards too though, because I know plenty of very nice guys who end up dating these nasty, unintelligent, disrespectful girls, who belittle and use them like crazy. It kind of pisses me off, actually. These nice guys think they have to date the hottest girl on campus and let her treat them like garbage so their friends will think they're studs and they won't be so desexualized. It even sadder that they feel they have to take that to get any respect. Nice guys should stop dating bad news girls, is what I think.