(The following is part of our weeklong Roe v. Wade Blog-a-thon)
The following is a debate that was sparked due to my facebook status on January 22, 2009. As you can see, it created some controversy! For the privacy of those involved, I'm changing the names of the people who commented and am deleting the pictures.
I'm apologize in advance for the swearing...there's quite a bit of it in here as people's emotions and tempers were running high. If you are offended by that, I'd suggest you don't read this!
STATUS UPDATE: {I Am} is shouting to the world to celebrate the anniversary of Roe V Wade tomorrow! Protect women's rights!
you just mean protect the woman's right to kill babies! AWESOME!
Wow. I tend to forget ignorant people (a woman, no less!) who support men's domination over women still exist. <sigh> Sad.
are you kidding me! if you need to validate yourself as a woman by killing a baby, do so, but the blood is on you hands.
i tend to forget that people are ignorant enough to celebrate the murder of 53,163,407 babies since January 22, 1973
Indeed, propaganda does work. Ignorance and self-righteousness is bliss, I always say! Right on, sister! Abstinence education is the best method of birth control because it's worked so well in the past. Now, STD rates are climbing exponentially (http://www.cdc.gov/STDConf
According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), there were 854,122 legal induced abortions in the US in 2003. (Wiki - look it up)
i have no clue what you're talking about. first of all im not religious, second of all, religion has nothing to do with the fact that MURDERING BABIES IS WRONG! save a tree and kill a baby. that's probably your thinking. taking you liberal ideas else where.and i apologize, the number i said was wrong. its 49,551,703 since roe vs wade
AGI CDC
1973 744,600 615,831
1974 898,600 763,476
1975 1,034,200 854,853
1976 1,179,300 988,267
1977 1,316,700 1,079,430
1978 1,409,600 1,157,776
1979 1,497,700 1,251,921
1980 1,553,900 1,297,606
1981 1,577,300 1,300,760
1982 1,573,900 1,303,980
1983 1,575,000 1,268,987
1984 1,577,200 1,333,521
1985 1,588,600 1,328,570
1986 1,574,000 1,328,112
1987 1,559,100 1,353
AGI CDC
1973 744,600 615,831
1974 898,600 763,476
1975 1,034,200 854,853
1976 1,179,300 988,267
1977 1,316,700 1,079,430
1978 1,409,600 1,157,776
1979 1,497,700 1,251,921
1980 1,553,900 1,297,606
1981 1,577,300 1,300,760
1982 1,573,900 1,303,980
1983 1,575,000 1,268,987
1984 1,577,200 1,333,521
1985 1,588,600 1,328,570
1986 1,574,000 1,328,112
1987 1,559,100 1,353
and why did you give me the number of abortions in one year? i gave you the number for 35 years of killing babies. and also, i never said anything about abstinence.all you are doing is stereotyping me as a religious freak that doesn't want people to have sex. if you are responsible enough to have sex, be responsible enough to take care of the baby. the main function of sex is reproduction so its not a surprise, or an accident. so go ahead and mention rape, im sure that's what you're going to say next... around 1% of abortions are because of rape. look it up :)
dear teenage mother, we will not let you get an abortion even though you cannot afford your baby, no, no one will adopt it either, they're too busy getting knocked up themselves. Oh, and we also will not provide basic services for you and your child.
good luck.
good luck.
I just wanted to add input that Roe v. Wade didn't cause any babies to be killed. Whether or not the it is legal to have an abortion it will still happen. What Roe v. Wade does is make it safe for women to have abortions instead of illegal abortions where the mother's very often die themselves.
If you force women to have babies they don't want the end result won't be any better then these made statistics your spouting off. If they don't want the kid then they probably won't take care of it.
Also, not everyone is lucky enough to have resources to take care of a baby. Some women are in situations that you can not understand. A woman who has an abortion doesn't wake up in the morning excited about it. A decision like this is NEVER taken lightly.
If you force women to have babies they don't want the end result won't be any better then these made statistics your spouting off. If they don't want the kid then they probably won't take care of it.
Also, not everyone is lucky enough to have resources to take care of a baby. Some women are in situations that you can not understand. A woman who has an abortion doesn't wake up in the morning excited about it. A decision like this is NEVER taken lightly.
Lastly, there is also the issue of constitutionality. Texas' laws violate the Bill of Rights regarding a right to privacy making Texas' laws unconstitutional. Abortion has been around long before Roe v. Wade dating back to Greek and Romand times where it was legal. Privacy is a fundamental right gauranteed to all citizens and this includes abortion. (Because let's face it, it's none of your business if another woman gets an abortion. No one is forcing you to have one). Therefore, as long as the fetus is not yet considered a viable living being (usually 20 weeks) abortion remains the mother's decision.
The two youngest babies to born and survive were delivered at 21 weeks. 78% of abortions are done during the first 10 weeks (CDC Datat) and only 1.4% are done after the fetus is viable. This means that of that number of babies you claim has died since Roe v. Wade, you could only argue that 744,287 were "killed."
The two youngest babies to born and survive were delivered at 21 weeks. 78% of abortions are done during the first 10 weeks (CDC Datat) and only 1.4% are done after the fetus is viable. This means that of that number of babies you claim has died since Roe v. Wade, you could only argue that 744,287 were "killed."
i cannot believe that you ignorant women think it is better to KILL a baby than to choose another one of the many options. you say that the women cannot afford the baby so they kill it, well what about a woman you has already had the baby? what if in a year or so she realizes she can no longer afford to support it? should she kill the baby then? no. that would be inhuman. so what is the difference of killing the baby then or when it is still inside the mother? it is the same exact baby. also, if you do not want the baby you are aloud to anonymously leave the baby at the hospital (safe haven law). i do not see how you can honestly justify someone killing a baby!!
i'm just glad my mom didn't believe in abortion and you should be too!
:)
i'm just glad my mom didn't believe in abortion and you should be too!
:)
if it's not a baby, you're not pregnant
and you say its privacy????? privacy to kill? its just mind boggling that you think killing is okay. for the sake of your offspring, i hope you never reproduce if human life is as disposable to you as you make it out to be
and you say its privacy????? privacy to kill? its just mind boggling that you think killing is okay. for the sake of your offspring, i hope you never reproduce if human life is as disposable to you as you make it out to be
and who cares how long people have been having abortions??? people have been killing people since the beginning of time. does that make it right? no. and just because it's legal does that make it right? no. once upon a time keeping blacks out of public schools was legal, owning slaves was legal, a whole bunch of things were legal, was it right?
Didn't your hubby just got back from killing people? oh wait, I meant "protecting our freedom."
you fucking asshole. you do not deserve the freedoms you enjoy. i am absolutely disgusted by your comment. how can you criticize defending our country when its the country that has given you the opportunity to be where you are today. how can you compare killing an unborn child to defending this country against people that would love to kill you and everything you stand for.
And NOW you're bringing up the civil rights issue. Kudos for "a whole bunch of things were legal." Did you learn those examples of black people from high school? Great memory. You know, if you want to learn more facts and use them in argument, you can consider college.
Direct quote from you: "people have been killing people since the beginning of time. does that make it right? no."
So basically you're slapping yourself in the face.
So basically you're slapping yourself in the face.
actually you dumb mother fucker i am in college. i am speechless at your ungratefulness.
yep. Using cuss words and saying the "your mom..." thing certainly represent what kind of college education you're receiving. Notice how the people above, who are receiving or have received REAL higher level education, are able to argue with real facts while using no cuss words?
Man...calling people names, wishing people to have no offsprings, citing nothing but high school level facts, and grudging that my mom wasn'g pro-choice...you're certainly getting your points accross.
Man...calling people names, wishing people to have no offsprings, citing nothing but high school level facts, and grudging that my mom wasn'g pro-choice...you're certainly getting your points accross.
if abortion was illegal there'd probably be more infant deaths resulting anyway.
and you know, this planet really doesn't need more unwanted children either. it's overpopulated enough and we're ruining the planet for everyone and everything as it is.
and you know, this planet really doesn't need more unwanted children either. it's overpopulated enough and we're ruining the planet for everyone and everything as it is.
Direct quotes from a person with perfect arguments:
"if you are responsible enough to have sex, be responsible enough to take care of the baby. the main function of sex is reproduction so its not a surprise, or an accident."
"if you do not want the baby you are aloud to anonymously leave the baby at the hospital (safe haven law)."
So...if I understand it correctly, your definition of "responsible enough to take care of the baby" is "not wanting the baby and ALOUD yourself to leave it at the hospital?" Hmm...I'm sensing a great deal of responsibility.
"if you are responsible enough to have sex, be responsible enough to take care of the baby. the main function of sex is reproduction so its not a surprise, or an accident."
"if you do not want the baby you are aloud to anonymously leave the baby at the hospital (safe haven law)."
So...if I understand it correctly, your definition of "responsible enough to take care of the baby" is "not wanting the baby and ALOUD yourself to leave it at the hospital?" Hmm...I'm sensing a great deal of responsibility.
i'm going to leave a completely inconsequential comment and say well done, {my name}. i'm proud.
this is disgusting and i can not believe how worked up i let you get me. you truly do not value life or the people who fight to defend yours every day.the killing of an unborn infant and soldiers protecting the united states and its people is not the same thing at all. you are ignorant to even group the two together and call that an argument. Sometimes war has to be waged precisely for the defense of life.
if you do not stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front. i'm sure none of them will stop you
if you do not stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front. i'm sure none of them will stop you
Thanks, {my name}'s friends, for picking up my slack. I got bored and tired after realizing this is silly. The one who lives in bliss (an anti-choice atheist teen mom?) is clearly going to disagree with anyone who promotes a woman's right and ability to make her own decisions.
The real issue stems from lack of education and allowing young girls (and women) to have self respect and self esteem so they don't feel pressured into having sex, getting knocked up, and facing a difficult decision (whatever the case may be).
BUT IT SHOULD BE HER DECISION TO MAKE, whether it's to terminate the pregnancy, keep it, or give it up for adoption, etc.. Each child has the right to be reared with love - how many unwanted children don't?
The real issue stems from lack of education and allowing young girls (and women) to have self respect and self esteem so they don't feel pressured into having sex, getting knocked up, and facing a difficult decision (whatever the case may be).
BUT IT SHOULD BE HER DECISION TO MAKE, whether it's to terminate the pregnancy, keep it, or give it up for adoption, etc.. Each child has the right to be reared with love - how many unwanted children don't?
correction: anti-baby killer mom, and im not a teen.
how can you fight for the choice of whether a mom should be able to KILL her baby or not? i hope you all realize that a baby is a baby! not a choice. your decision making ends when you decide to have sex
how can you fight for the choice of whether a mom should be able to KILL her baby or not? i hope you all realize that a baby is a baby! not a choice. your decision making ends when you decide to have sex
so, {original poster}.....basically, we're all ignorant, baby killing creitans to you and we will always remain as such. your belief is much better than ours. pat yourself on the back knowing that you'll never abort a fetus nor will you ever see beyond your own little bubble called "the rest of the world" and move on with your life, sweetie. and by the way, ever hear the saying you catch more flies with honey than vinegar? rather than call people names like "dumb motherfucker" maybe you should just go to church and ask jesus to forgive us barbarians.
cheers to you, sweetie, for making me smile and laugh.....several times. :)
cheers to you, sweetie, for making me smile and laugh.....several times. :)
oh yeah, i do want to say though.....the whole caylee anthony thing? yeah, pretty good example of why abortion is the best answer in some situations. maybe that little girl would never have been born, but she certainly would not have suffered the way she eventually did.
I find it kinda disgusting that you'd prefer women who get pregnant and cannot afford to have a baby throw themselves down stairs, get back alley abortions from people who aren't medical professionals, have their stomachs punched repeatedly, take harmful chemicals, etc. than have legal, safe abortions.
Because let's face it - so long as our schools insist on teaching subpar sexual education, there will be a plethora of unwanted pregnancies popping up. Accidents can happen even to those who pratice safe sex. Condoms break, birth control is not always 100% effective.
Would you prefer every woman who gets pregnant keep the baby, even if they don't want it or CANNOT possibly afford to feed it? Would you prefer children starve and live in abusive, neglectful homes? There are places in this world where women don't have access to safe, legal abortions. Guess what? They still have them. The only difference is often women don't make it.
Because let's face it - so long as our schools insist on teaching subpar sexual education, there will be a plethora of unwanted pregnancies popping up. Accidents can happen even to those who pratice safe sex. Condoms break, birth control is not always 100% effective.
Would you prefer every woman who gets pregnant keep the baby, even if they don't want it or CANNOT possibly afford to feed it? Would you prefer children starve and live in abusive, neglectful homes? There are places in this world where women don't have access to safe, legal abortions. Guess what? They still have them. The only difference is often women don't make it.
Also, I'm going to second Jessica Hindman's statement that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
There is a way to get your opposing viewpoint across in a respectful, intelligent manner. Shrieking obscenities when everyone else involved in the argument is responding a calm, rational manner only makes you look like the "dumb motherfucker".
I've had this discussion dozens of times with people who take your stance. Unlike you, they chose to be rational and level-headed and they made me respect them, though I still passionately disagree. If you want to make people think you're something other than an ignorant Marionite, you might want to attempt to learn a thing or two about true debate before you go spouting off again.
There is a way to get your opposing viewpoint across in a respectful, intelligent manner. Shrieking obscenities when everyone else involved in the argument is responding a calm, rational manner only makes you look like the "dumb motherfucker".
I've had this discussion dozens of times with people who take your stance. Unlike you, they chose to be rational and level-headed and they made me respect them, though I still passionately disagree. If you want to make people think you're something other than an ignorant Marionite, you might want to attempt to learn a thing or two about true debate before you go spouting off again.
{My name}, now you've finally realized the power of changing facebook status.
You know...it's pretty obvious that you don't have a theme for your argument, and that's why you jumped from calling people killers, pulling random numbers from wikipedia, citing civil rights, calling people names, trying to dare people to go into the army, and eventually going back to calling people killers again. Notice how those arguing against you stick to the issue and support with facts after facts?
You know...it's pretty obvious that you don't have a theme for your argument, and that's why you jumped from calling people killers, pulling random numbers from wikipedia, citing civil rights, calling people names, trying to dare people to go into the army, and eventually going back to calling people killers again. Notice how those arguing against you stick to the issue and support with facts after facts?
If you want to talk about "defense of life," let me tell you something: there are lots and lots of people out there willing to dedicate their time to go to school and learn the best way to contribute to society in the near future. Why do I want to spend 10 more years of my life staying in school? Because I want to practice medicine and help to defend life without killing. It's the same way for lawyers, businessmen, artists, musicians...etc. We defend life by living it fully and using our professionalities to help out the society. That's my belief of "defense of life."
So if a stay-at-home mom, who never even tries to accomplish anything in her life, tries to educate me about "defense of life," I can only ask her how much she'll be able to contribute to the society and the goodness of mankind beside sleeping with a solder while waving the American flag?
So if a stay-at-home mom, who never even tries to accomplish anything in her life, tries to educate me about "defense of life," I can only ask her how much she'll be able to contribute to the society and the goodness of mankind beside sleeping with a solder while waving the American flag?
all of the education in the world cannot give you common sense, obviously. common senses says killing unborn babies is wrong.
and i do not have to prove myself to you. i have accomplished so much already. and yes, Dandrich, i am in school as i have already stated. i am not a stay-at-home mom. (even if i was, why is that such a bad thing? i know a lot of great SAHM) i am a mom working her way through college to make a better life for myself and for my family. you know absolutely nothing about me
keep drinking the kool-aid.
and i do not have to prove myself to you. i have accomplished so much already. and yes, Dandrich, i am in school as i have already stated. i am not a stay-at-home mom. (even if i was, why is that such a bad thing? i know a lot of great SAHM) i am a mom working her way through college to make a better life for myself and for my family. you know absolutely nothing about me
keep drinking the kool-aid.
Here's my thing about abortion. I would like to think that I would never have one, but really, I'm not sure because I've never been there. The thing is, women don't have options. We can leave our babies at some random location or give it up for adoption, but really what does that do? How many babies have you adopted? There are millions of orphans in the world, and that number will only grow thanks to AIDS and increased teenage pregnancies. And so then you have the baby, what then? If you didn't want to get pregnant, you're probably not ready for one. I can't imagine being that alone in the world. And I hate the "rape argument" it doesn't matter if you were raped or not, if you don't want the baby then you don't want the baby.
Other countries provide legitimate resources for new mothers, like nannies and healthcare and plenty of time off work. Mothers and women are treated with more respect and are not criminalized.
{My Best Friend}
Other countries provide legitimate resources for new mothers, like nannies and healthcare and plenty of time off work. Mothers and women are treated with more respect and are not criminalized.
{My Best Friend}
Plus, with the HORRIBLE sex education, what do you expect to happen? Of course people are getting unwanted pregnancies.
Oh, and don't forget the STDs - those are on the rise because using a condom is against God's will...yadda, yadda, yadda.
Folks, you cannot reason with unreasonable people, although I do enjoy the discussion.
I would be curious, however, to know how many anti-choice people are also pro-death penalty and how many of those actually grasp the irony/contradiction/double
Folks, you cannot reason with unreasonable people, although I do enjoy the discussion.
I would be curious, however, to know how many anti-choice people are also pro-death penalty and how many of those actually grasp the irony/contradiction/double
i am pretty impressive, i know. I'm too passionate about life :)
if you don't want the baby, don't have sex. everyone knows what sex leads to. it shouldn't be a big surprise if it happens
if you don't want the baby, don't have sex. everyone knows what sex leads to. it shouldn't be a big surprise if it happens
You know, {Angry Poster}, I totally respect that you're working your ass off to make a better life for you and your child. I have a friend who has a baby and is in college. (See above comment from Molly Gammon) It's a hard thing to undertake and I really respect that. My mom had my brother in 1979 when she was 19 or 20 and was pretty much forced by her Catholic parents to marry my Dad (who is her polar opposite). She had to delay college (she didn't go back until I was 4, AFTER the divorce) and apparently my Dad wanted her to have more children after me! I am number five. She's had a really tough life as well and has risen above it. The point is, she had a choice to make. You had a choice to make. You both chose to keep your babies. There is nothing wrong with that. I love babies! I want my siblings to have MORE babies! However, I personally DON'T want any babies. (Thank god for birth control)
this is my favorite part right here "I would be curious, however, to know how many anti-choice people are also pro-death penalty" the funny thing about all of that is, people are willing to fight for the life of a convicted murderer but will not fight for the life of a baby...? you would be willing to fight for a tree or an animal, but not a human baby...?
Here's my question to whoever is pro choice and makes the argument that you know that sex leads to babies...so every time you had sex, you hoped to get pregnant?
thats awesome. arent you glad your mom chose to keep you and your brother and other siblings? were you any less a baby in you mom's stomach? no. you being in that situation makes it even more mind boggling that you think the way you do. be glad your mom didn't kill you
"every time you had sex, you hoped to get pregnant?"
no. and thats why we used condoms. but if i would have gotten pregnant there would be no way in hell i would kill my child of my carelessness
no. and thats why we used condoms. but if i would have gotten pregnant there would be no way in hell i would kill my child of my carelessness
it's not killing. do you remember what life was like inside the womb?
and you know what, with the way the world is, yes, sometimes i wish my mom just went ahead and got an abortion, but she's pro life.
and you know what, with the way the world is, yes, sometimes i wish my mom just went ahead and got an abortion, but she's pro life.
When you take away a woman's right to choose, you take away her right to a healthy, child free (should she choose) sex life. Sex is important to one's relationship with one's partner and even if you're married (like my brother and sister-in-law who can't afford a child yet) you should have the right to choose birth control, or in an (I stress) EXTREME case, abortion. The point of the argument for most people here is about keeping the government out of your personal life. I don't know what I would do in that situation. I haven't been there. I am, however, in a steady relationship and even though we're both jobless and broke, having the support of your partner would make keeping the child easier. Many women don't have that, however. If you're single, jobless, and broke, the undertaking of raising a child could be quite daunting. You don't have the support of the child's father and I could guess that you'd feel pretty alone in the world.
"it's not killing. do you remember what life was like inside the womb?"
i dont remember what life was like at a year old...? im not sure of the point you were trying to make with that one
i dont remember what life was like at a year old...? im not sure of the point you were trying to make with that one
as fun as it is to read this, you guys might as well leave it alone. she'll just keep spouting the same old rhetoric and nothing will change. :)
i'm glad my mom chose to keep me. i'm also glad she wasn't an 12 year old rape victim who had to drop out of school and live on welfare.
i'm glad my mom chose to keep me. i'm also glad she wasn't an 12 year old rape victim who had to drop out of school and live on welfare.
oh, and according to some, using condoms or birth control is a form of abortion and is just as evil. so....don't climb too far up on that high horse!
look up "the duggars" LOL.
look up "the duggars" LOL.
and you want to talk about same old rhetoric? pretty much every comment you guys have left is the SAME thing. a baby is a woman's choice blah blah blah
Sweetheart, the same could be said to you. You're giving the same, tired old pro-life rhetoric. Might want to watch how often you call the kettle black, Miss Pot.
hey {High School Friend}, maybe you could figure out what im talking about before you make another dumb comment. when i said 'you want to talk about same old rhetoric?' it was in response to {Poster #3's} comment so maybe you should use your little analogy with her.
and also the information remains the same. when talking about the value and right to life, i don't need "refreshing new information."
I just heard about this debate today, and wanted to comment on how awesome {My name} is for sparking it. Yeah! One note on the "right to life" rhetoric. Even though I am pro-choice, I respect people who are "right to life"--if that includes being pro-gun control, anti-war and anti-death penalty. That would be logical if you truly value human life. However, in my experience, "pro-life" people tend to be just the opposite (pro-gun, pro-war, and pro-death penalty), so if your value for life only extends to abortion, then I think you need to re-examine your convictions. When you start demanding an end to lax gun regulations, state sponsored killing and torture, and a war that was waged based on lies, I will start listening.
the end....................?
********************************************************************************************
Make of it what you will. Take what you want from the arguments. I just thought it was an interesting unintended social experiment.
the end....................?
********************************************************************************************
Make of it what you will. Take what you want from the arguments. I just thought it was an interesting unintended social experiment.
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